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# Practice exercise 4, questions 6 and 7 (Early Zi and Day Stem)

I do not get the same answer as you did.

Hello again Gabriel,

The key to both of these questions is to remember NOT to use the early Zi 子 method in your calculations. You will the early Zi method explained in the “Find the Day Pillar” section of chapter 1.

A reminder not the use the early Zi method for the Hour Pillar calculations is found in the “Define the BaZi Hour” section of Chapter 1.

As it is a mistake that many students often take a misstep, I have also added it as a bulleted “reminder” in the Hour Pillar Calculation summary box (found on page 71 of the paper copy of the book).

### Find the Hour Pillar: 18 April 1979 @ 23:30 (Female)

First, determine the Day Pillar

We know the Day Pillar (because we previously calculated it in Practice Exercise 3) is #52, YiMao 乙卯. The temptation is to use this information in the HS equation. However, please remember that we are NOT supposed to use the early Zi method in the DP equation!

There are two ways to approach this.

1.Calculate the DP value again, this time using birthdate + 1 in the DP equation (because we do not use the early Zi method to find the Hour Pillar):

DP = R (of 395 + 19 + 9 + 19 + 1 + 30] / 60

DP = R of (473/60)

DP = #53 (BingChen 丙辰)

2. A short cut, if you don’t want to work the DP calculation again, is to know that when you add one to the birthdate, you will essentially move one up in the sexagenary cycle chart. So in this example, we know the person’s Day Pillar is #52, YiMao 乙卯. Now, move one up in the cycle and you will know that we will use #53 BingChen 丙辰 in the Hour Pillar calculations.

Use the adjusted DP pillar information to find the Hour Stem:

Then, use the HB and HS formulas to find the Hour Stem:

(from the answers above, Bing 丙 = #3, as per Heavenly Ring diagram)

HS = (3 X 2) + (1 -2)

HS = 5 (Wu 戊)

HB = Zi 子 (#1, as per Earthly Ring diagram and Earthly Branch and Time of Day chart)

Day Pillar is WuZi 戊子

### Practice exercise 4, question 7:

Find the Hour Pillar: 7 November 1985 @ 23:11 (Male)

As above, first determine the Day Pillar.

Either recalculate the DP using the birthdate + 1 or move up one position from your previous DP calculation of this birthday (#47 GengXu 庚戌, from Practice Exercise 3, question 7) in the sexagenary cycle chart.

DP = R of [425 + 21 + 9 + 8 + 5 + 0] / 60

DP = R of (468/60)

DP = #48 XinHai 辛亥 (#47 GengXu 庚戌 + 1)

Then, use the HB and HS formulas to find the Hour Stem:

(from the answer above, Xin 辛 = #8, as per Heavenly Ring diagram)

HS = (8X2) + (1-2)

HS = 16 – 1 = 15 (subtract 10)

HS = 5 Wu 戊)

HB = Zi 子 (#1, as per Earthly Ring diagram and Earthly Branch and Time of Day chart)

Hour Pillar is WuZi 戊子

I hope this helps!

PS please also see my post, Early Zi method, for more on this topic…

## 9 thoughts on “Practice exercise 4, questions 6 and 7 (Early Zi and Day Stem)”

1. Gabriel says:

Dear Karin
Thank for these explanations, I’ll try to go through. Are you giving seminars around this topics or can you recommend some?
Have a nice day!
Gabriel

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1. Chinese Wisdom Traditions says:

Hello Gabriel!

You are very welcome 🙂

I may focus more on teaching in the future, once my daughter is in school full time (…still several years from now). However, my husband and I have developed our GanZhi Advanced Daoist Arts Program (https://chinesewisdomtraditions.com/ganzhi-advanced-daoist-arts-program/) for this purpose.

We just started a new course in Dec 2018, so we will likely plan on opening the next course in 2020 or 2021?

Best regards,

Karin

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2. zalim says:

R (of 395 + 19 + 9 + 19 + 1 + 30] / 60
18 April 1979
what i did
79*5 = 395
79 / 4 = 19
DP = 19 because born time is after 23:00
BM = 1
I = 30
now i will calculate all 395+19+19+1+30 = 464
now 464 Divide by 60
my answer is 7.73333333 if i make 7 then is not the answer
the correct is this as per your calculation
DP = #53 (BingChen 丙辰)

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1. Chinese Wisdom Traditions says:

Hello Zalim!

Calculate the DP using birthdate + 1 in the DP equation (because we do not use the early Zi method to find the Hour Pillar):

DP = R of [(395 + 19 + 9 + 19 + 1 + 30) / 60]

DP = R of (473/60)

If you are resisting putting pen to paper (i.e. you do not wish to write out the long division calculation by hand) and prefer to use a calculator/computer program, you can try this method:

Enter in 473 ÷ 60 = 7.88333333

In this case, the decimals of the answer are unimportant—we are looking for the integer (whole number) remainder, and to find it we use the whole number quotient (answer).

So, disregarding the decimals, the whole number quotient 7 (do not round up). In other words, 60 goes into 473 a total of 7 times. 473 is not perfectly divisible by 60, meaning 60 does not go evenly into 473 7 times. Therefore, we need to find the whole number remainder.

In your calculator, multiply 60 x 7 = 420

To find the remainder (R), subtract 420 from 473 and you get 53 (473 – 420 = 53).

DP = #53 (丙辰 BingChen on the Sexagenary Cycle chart

I hope this makes sense!

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3. Zalim says:

Thanks that help a lot actually in below calculation its not mention then it willl Multiply by Reminder that’s why i was confused

SAMPLE EXERCISE 8
Find the Day Pillar for a male whose birthday is 26 April 1945 at 09:17.
DP = R of [(Y × 5) + (Y / 4) + 9 + D + BM + I] / 60
DP = R of [(45 × 5) + (45 / 4) + 9 + 26 + 1 + 30] / 60
DP = R of (225 + 11 + 9 + 26 + 1 + 30) / 60
DP = R of (302 / 60)
DP = 2
The Day Pillar is YiChou 乙丑.
SAMPLE EXERCISE 9
Find the Day Pillar for a female whose birthday is 9 September 2005 at 23:45.
DP = R of [(Y × 5) + (Y / 4) + 9 + D + BM + I] / 60
DP = R of [(105 × 5) + (105 / 4) + 9 + 9 + 4 + 0] / 60
DP = R of (525 + 26 + 9 + 9 + 4 + 0) / 60
DP = R of (573 / 60)
DP = 33
The Day Pillar is BingShen 丙申.

By the way i just wanted to know can we see someone past via Bazi like if someone born 1 July 1992 Female time between 12:30 to 1:00 pm so i can read year pillar.

and what’s alternative if time is missing.

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1. Chinese Wisdom Traditions says:

Hi Zalim,

If you do not have the exact time of birth, you can still calculate the chart using the information that you do have. Although the resulting picture will not be 100% complete, it will still provide a lot of information.

I hope this helps!

Karin

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4. Jeremy Colledge says:

Dear Karin,
My confusion comes in Ex4 / No.6
The starting point seems incorrect for me.
The Female is born in April and therefore we should subtract 1 hour for DST.
That would take her from 23:30 to 22:30hr, and make her Hai, not Zi?
With thanks,
Jeremy

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1. Chinese Wisdom Traditions says:

Hello Jeremy!

Thanks for your question. Daylight Savings Time can be tricky with each year starting at a slightly different time (and in some cases you will find that people were born before Daylight Savings Time was implemented).

in 1979, Daylight Savings Time began on 29 April at 03:00.

I hope this helps!

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5. Jeremy Colledge says:

Find the Hour Pillar: 18 April 1979 @ 23:30 (Female)
Surly, this female was born at 23:30 in April, DST starts at the end March.
Therefore her birth time GMT must be 22:30, making her HB Hai, and not Zi as you say..

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